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INTERVIEW WITH JAZZ FAVORITE JOE
ROBINSON
Passionate Life Devoted to Music
Nurtured by Teachers and Family
In the interview below,
nationally acclaimed jazz trumpeter Joe
Robinson
talks about his
humble beginnings in Winston-Salem, the teachers and family
who nurtured his natural talent, his studies at the
prestigious Berklee School of Music in Boston, his return to
Winston-Salem, and his years of performing around the Triad,
state, and beyond.
“Carolina Music Ways” board chair, Elizabeth Carlson,
recently interviewed Mr. Robinson. Ms. Carlson’s
questions are in italics.
Tune your radios Wednesday
morning, September 14th at 9:50 am to WFDD (88.5 FM in the
Winston-Salem region) to hear Joe Robinson interviewed on
"Triad Arts Up Close". To hear the audio clip of this
interview anytime after 5:00pm on the 14th, click
here.
To hear Joe perform live,
visit The 411 at 411 Cherry Street in downtown Winston-Salem
(336.725.1411) on September 10th and 22nd where Joe will be
playing beginning at 9:00pm.
To hear a cut from Mr. Robinson’s CD,
“Movin' On, click
here and go to the “Listen
Box”.
***
Joe, you grew up right here in
Winston-Salem in Happy
Hill Gardens . Tell us the story
about you discovering a bugle in the woods when you were a
boy.
Some friends
of mine, we used to roam those hills before they built up
everything around there. There were a lot of hills around the
Happy Hill development, and we stayed in those hills most of
the time, all during the day. We had a tree house,
the whole nine yards.
And one day, we were just coming down this path, and
there were a lot of leaves. We were just kicking
the leaves because you want to kick leaves when you are a
kid. And there
was this bugle.
So, a friend
of mine, Jerry, picked it up, and right away my eyes lit
up. I was just
interested in it for no reason. I just didn’t know how
this thing was going to play out. But, I was really
wanting to get it from Jerry. And fortunately, Jerry
said, “Well, I don’t want it,” and he handed it to me. I asked Jerry to blow
it, and he said, “I’m not going to put my mouth on it.” So, I just got my
shirt tail and wiped off the mouth piece and blowed it. And he said, “Well,
you can have it,” and we just went on about our business. And I tied it to my
belt strap and carried it on home. And I started blowing
that thing and likely driving half of the people in the
Gardens crazy. We
used to ride on back of bicycles, and I’d be playing the
racing thing--dad dah
da da da da…. dahhh! That’s all you could
play with a bugle basically. And I played it and
played it and played it.
And that was the beginning, and I think I developed my
trumpet lip from that.
And how old were you at that
time?
I really,
really don’t know.
I remember taking the mouth piece into class, and I was
in the fifth grade, so whatever age, ten or eleven or
somewhere along there.
So, how did your experience with the
bugle lead to the trumpet?
I did the
little skit in the class room. I didn’t think too
much of it, you know how kids are. And I’d learned how to play
the mouth piece quite well. And back in those days
you had little skits every Thursday in the class room. The teacher got so
excited about it and made such a bit fuss over it. I mean this teacher
doesn’t know today that she was responsible for me going
on. I mean she
just made that kind of difference in my life. Most of the people who
influenced me in music were not musicians, they were just good
teachers, people in the neighborhood. Just giving you that
“Go for it. You got something special.”
Let’s hear the story of how you got
your first trumpet.
It took a
long time to get a trumpet. It seemed like forever
as a kid, but I guess it was a year or two. I begged for a trumpet
every weekend.
Back then, everybody went downtown to get
groceries. We
didn’t have all these stores around, Food Lion and all this
stuff, so everyone went to the center of town to get
groceries. And my
job was to go down there every Saturday with my grandfather
and bring the groceries back. And I would always get
hung up at the pawn shop, which was the Empire Loan, which had
all these beautiful trumpets. And I’d be
embarrassed, so I’d go to another shop. Camel Pawn and Empire
Loan were side by side.
So, it was kind of embarrassing standing at that window
all the time looking at the trumpets, so I would switch pawn
shops. (Laughs.)
And I just
used to tell my grandmother, “I want a trumpet, I want a
trumpet, I want a trumpet.” So, one morning, we were on the
way downtown, and she said, (my grandfather’s name was Sam),
she said, “Sam, get that boy a trumpet today.” And when I got
that trumpet, in fact, I took the groceries; I couldn’t wait
on the bus. I had the trumpet in one hand, the groceries in
the other, and from 3rd St
downtown to, by this time I had moved to
18th
St. where my grandmother lived…And,
I wouldn’t wait for the bus. I trotted all the way
home with the groceries and that trumpet and I never put it
down.
(Laughs.)
And how old were you when you got your
first trumpet?
Let’s
see. That was
after the fifth grade, so this was about a year and a half
later maybe before I finally got a real trumpet. [Around
twelve years old.] In fact [before getting
the trumpet], I used to go to parades and I never would see
the parade. I
would get with Atkins trumpet section and I would just march
with it, along the sides, just watching the trumpet players,
hoping they would just let me hold it. Well, for a while my
grandmother lived what used to be Bruce St.
, right across from Winston-Salem State Teachers College , and
they used to practice, of course. And I’d to go up
there, and the guys used to let me hold the trumpet for a
minute, and I wouldn’t blow it. They’d just let me hold
it. It felt like
I had gold.
So that must have been a very special
day, getting that trumpet?
That was the
most important day of my life. And I play it and play
it and played it….After I got the trumpet, I had one more year
of elementary, I believe, and so I wanted to get in the
band. I got it
like that summer, and that fall when school started, I was
playing well. I knew the school
song because I heard it so much. I didn’t know a note
of music. So, I
went in there with my horn, the $69.70 horn. I remember it was a Victory trumpet. They don’t even make
them anymore. And
a teacher put the music up there and I just played it. Just like I was
reading it. Put
me in the band. (Laughs.) And later on, I began
to learn what the notes really were, but I fooled him to
death, and that was a big secret of mine until I got it
together.
How did you learn to read music?
I got a hold
to it actually later on in that year, but just to make the
band, I faked it pretty good. And I could play
louder than anybody else and all that stuff, so I gradually
got a music book and began to learn the scales and that kind
of stuff.
You taught yourself or you took
lessons?
I taught
myself. I never
had a lesson.
That was just I guess intuitive genius, I guess for
that time… In fact, I don’t ever remember being a beginner,
you know starting off trying to make notes, because I had
developed this thing with the bugle, so I already had the
chops. And for
some reason, I had a very good ear, so anything I heard, I
could reproduce.
I just knew all the songs on the radio and all that
kind of thing.
Tell us about Atkins
High School
and its legendary music and band director Harry
Wheeler.
The Atkins
years were very important. My grandmother moved
to 18th St. and
that put me in the Atkins district. I was determined to
get to Atkins some kind of way. I just had to get to
Atkins. I didn’t
know how I was going to do it, but fortunately, she
moved.
… By that
time, Wheeler knew me, and he put me right on in the
band. And they
were telling me, “Man, freshmen don’t make the band.” I’m like, “What?” Because Wheeler had
heard me, and even before that, the Royal Sultans used to come
to the neighborhoods and play dances. [The “Royal Sultans”,
Wheeler’s band, was comprised of Wheeler and other music
teachers including Bernard
Foy].
They
would let me come in and play my one or two songs. I played “When the
Saints Go Marching In” and something else, I can’t
remember. It was
an adult dance, but they would always look out for guys like
me. So, I went in there and played, and then I’d run home and
practice some more… And Wheeler had a friend that lived in my
neighborhood, and every time I would see Wheeler come, I would
get that trumpet.
I knew who he was. (Laughs) I would get that
trumpet and just play.
… So, when I
got to Atkins, Wheeler knew about me and he put me in the
band… Immediately he took a liking to me, and I started
playing his very expensive trumpet. I played it for two
years before I finally got me one.
What was it like at Atkins
High School
back then?
Being the
only black school for the whole area, all the talent was
concentrated at that school, so it was very difficult to make
the basketball team or football team and extremely difficult
to make the band as a freshman.
After you graduated from Atkins, am I
correct that you attended the prestigious Berklee School of Music in Boston
?
Yeah, the
summer I graduated, Wheeler and I got together and went out to
WAAA. I had a
tape recorder at home and I had made some recordings. I wanted him to hear
them, but when I carried them to his house he said, “Well,
let’s go make a better tape at the radio station.” And [the late
legendary Winston-Salem DJ] “Daddy-Oh” was there, and I went
in there, and we made the tapes and filled out the forms and
submitted them to Berklee. They had what you call
a “Hall of Fame” scholarship, I think it was, and so they
wrote me back, and I was accepted. And that was
awesome. But,
other than Wheeler, my family did not support it, because they
didn’t believe I could get a real education out of a
magazine. They
were from a different time. So, nobody put aside
any money, and it was very difficult. So, I went up there
just about broke.
But I was there. (Laughs) That was the main
thing.
What was it like when you were up in
Boston
at Berklee?
At first it
was very interesting.
The classes were very good. They would bring
everybody into a room, all the trumpets together, all the
saxophone players, and see where everybody was musically. I remember doing this
audition with John LaPorter.
I don’t
know what his position was, but he was huge there. He had played with
Charlie Parker.
He was a fabulous musician, everybody up there is. And he would take you
in and play the piano and ask you to play. And I played, and he
wrote something down, and next thing you know I was in a Big
Band. I mean
coming down the hall I thought it was someone playing a big
stereo. Wow,
that’s how good they were. It was scary.
But first,
back to the room with all the trumpet players. I was afraid to take
mine out. So, I
listened for a while, then I said, “I don’t hear anything that
I can’t do”, so I pulled my horn out and ripped off. Everybody stopped and
looked at me and I thought, “Oh my goodness, it’s on now.” (Laughs.) But, it was a good
experience. The
classes, I had about three B’s and a C for the first part of
the deal up there.
And I had a chance to play around Boston
and I made some money. I was thinking, “Oh,
God!” I remember the first gig I made, I made $60.00. I was on top of the
world. 'Cause in my dorm room, I had a
traveling iron, I used to cook on that, beans, and I bought a
loaf on bread. I
would fix my meals in the room in the evening. I would eat one meal
at the restaurant with all the guys and I met a lot of
different people.
I was there with Johnny Hodges, Jr., Johnny Hodges from
Duke Ellington’s band, his son.
After Berklee, you returned to
Winston-Salem ?
I got so
homesick, you wouldn’t believe it. So, after that first
semester and being out of money all the time, and it started
getting cold up there.
And I was in love with Alfreda, [the future Mrs.
Robinson]. I just
wanted to get home.
What bands did you play with
in Winston-Salem after you
returned from Berklee?
So, [back
home], I started playing with “Gore and the Upsetters”. I had just started
playing with Gore when I left for school. That’s an interesting
story, too. I’ll
go back just a minute.
Mr. Gore, when I first leaned those few songs, he had a
band. Gore, he
was one of the first combos, other than the old guys, that was
very successful.
And he lived right up the street. So, when he’d come
down the street in his station wagon, I would run out to the
car. “Mr. Gore, I want to play in your band.” He’d say, “Ah, boy,
you‘re not good enough.”
And, I’d start to cry. “That’s all
right. You’re
going to want me one day.” (Laughs). And a year later, he
came knocking.
You know.
And so, when I got back, Alfreda and I got married, and
I started working and playing with the local bands. And I still had that
jazz thing, but there was no jazz around [in the '60s]. Rhythm and blues.
Only jazz we had
was when we got together as musicians and just played for each
other.
What other band were you in over the
years?
I was in Cary
Cain’s band, “The Migrators”. Everything was top 40,
R&B. I was in
several groups, some of them I can’t even remember the names
of them. 'Cause somebody would want to
start a band, and we would play a couple of gigs and they
would disintegrate.
But, Cary had a long lasting band
and, and so did Clarence Gore. I was mostly with Gore
up until the '60s, and then
we all fell out with Gore and formed our own group, “The
Eliminators”.
When did you start focusing on
jazz?
I was always
on jazz because I used to go over to Bill Bright’s house and
jam with him and anywhere they were playing, I would go sit
in. Even during
the R&B, I would play jazz solos.
Who were your heroes in terms of
famous jazz musicians during that period?
I was a Miles
[ Davis
], Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Dizzie Gillespie
fan, but I liked Miles better than anybody. I think I liked Miles
better because I thought I could play his stuff. Because Miles didn’t
play a screeching high trumpet, super fast like Dizzie, so I
listened to Dizzie and was like, “I’ll never get there.” And
I’d listen to Miles, and I was like, “Yeah, I’m right
here.” And I sort
of copied Miles, his solo and his form of doing things, and it
felt like me.
What are the local venues you’ve
performed in over the years?
There used to
be place where the jazz was happening over at what is now
Martin Luther
King Drive . Right near the
railroad station there was a grill called the “College Grill”
and they had jazz up-stairs. I’d go play the jazz
up there, while doing my other R&B thing with these other
various groups.
There was the “Kosmopolite”. I played there
with Cary Cain in the '60s,
and I played with “The Eliminators” there in the '70s. Gore never played
there. He always
stayed with big places.
But with Gore, we played all around, we played all the
college campuses.
We was always at Duke, Chapel
Hill , almost every weekend. Down in Atlanta
at Georgia Tech. We were always on the
road on the weekends.
I can’t even remember how much money we made. (Laughs)
You’ve played at other venues and
events, in North Carolina ,
around the South, even in the Caribbean . What are some of your
most memorable performance moments?
Golly. There’s been so
many. The one
that comes to mind right now is I played the “East Coast Jazz
Festival” with heavyweights. That was huge. I was there with the
people I idolize.
David Fat Head Newman, he and I talked. Ernie Andrews, who’s a
vocalist, we talked.
Some of them I didn’t get a chance to talk to, but I
was there amongst them…
Any other performance moments that
sticks out in your mind?
I played
“Jazz Charlotte” one year, which was the first time I ever
sang away from the local people. It was
tremendous. I got
tremendous response from the crowd. I was playing with a
band that really couldn’t play that well. But we sounded good.
(Laughs.) The music
was sort of wrong, but it sounded very good. That was a big
moment. Then I
used to work in Charlotte almost every
weekend at “Jonathan’s Jazz Cellar”. We would perform one
week, Wynton Marsalis would come in the next week, we’d
perform the next week, some other major artist would be there,
so I got a chance to hobnob with them and their rehearsals and
all that because the guy had a hotel, so he put the band up
over night, and we were sort of like the house band.
And, of
course, the latest thing is when I did a concert in Charlotte
with Gerald Albright, the saxophone player. That was huge. It might be the best
memory ever because I had family from South Carolina and North Carolina
.
Everybody in the family came. People from Winston-Salem
went down in bus loads, 'cause I was on the show with
Gerald Albright.
And they were screaming. And Charlotte
had played on of the cuts off the CD, and it had
got kind of popular there, and so when I hit the first note, I
couldn’t hear.
What CD was that?
It was the
second one, “Movin' On”. In
Charlotte
they liked, “Love.com”. And when I hit that thing,
you couldn’t hear for thirty seconds.
So, your song“Love.com” got a lot of
airplay in Charlotte ?
Yeah, I did
radio interviews and all that stuff down there. That was huge. Of course I had
another really good time over in Greensboro with the other saxophone
player, Boney James, but maybe the greatest of all, I did
Raleigh
.
Carried a whole box of CDs down there. And we performed with
Boney James again. Anyway, my son was out
front trying to sell my CDs. People just wouldn’t
look at it.
And after we did the first set, the crowd was around
him so much, he said, “Daddy, I probably gave away some
CDs. There were
so many people.”
He sold a whole box. A box holds 100. He sold 100 CDs.
Tell us about your two CDS.
The first one
was about four years ago: “Better Late Than Never”. That came
as a result of playing at “The Cellar” [former club in
Winston-Salem ]. And people coming up
and saying, “Do you have a tape?” At that time cassette
tapes was the thing.
CDs were just coming on the market. By the time I made
one, of course, I went CD. People were like, “We
like this. If you ever record, I want one of your
recordings.” And
I said I’m not going through another year of this. So, I just went to the
studio, Steve Blake’s place over on Pine Valley
Road , and just recorded what they
liked at “The Cellar”.
And they responded. They bought it. That was big fun. That was huge. We did the CD release
party and all that.
Your second CD, “Movin' On”?
“Movin' On.” There was such a
demand for something else. I had four original compositions,
including “Love.com”.
That’s funny how that thing came about. My mother-in-law,
who’s about eighty years old, she got ill and came to live
with us a few weeks until she recovered and she said, “Joe,
what is this “.com”?
'Cause everything on
the TV was “.com.”
That was when it was first emerging, you know, big
time. And it got
me to thinking, “.com”, “.com”. And it just stayed with
me. So, I wrote a
few lyrics and put it away for six months, and I went back to
it... So, I called Herb [Stevens] and I said, “Herb, I got
this song. I
haven’t finished it yet, but I need some chords to it.” I had hummed the base
line that I wanted, so Herb got that and put chords to it.
So, we got a
little cassette tape, and I kept it a whole year. And so, when it came
time to record, I naturally put that on there and got the
right musicians, and they did a marvelous job on it.
Where can folks purchase your
CDs?
Borders and
Miss Lady’s Music Creations. Those are the primary
places in Winston-Salem . [Also, from Mr.
Robinson’s web site http://www.joerobinson.net/.]
The last topic: Music as a family
legacy. Were your
parents or grandparents musical and what about your wife
Alfreda and your children?
OK. Starting at the
beginning. My
father. I’m the
spittin' image of my
father. Only I
play trumpet. He
played piano. And
he sang like Nat Cole.
And he played piano like Fats Waller. And I remember him
being very
good. I used to
follow him around.
At that time, just about every house had a piano in
it. And we used
to go to drink house, because that was where people hung out
back in the day, especially when I was young. And I used to sit
there, and he used to play those Fats Waller boogie woogies
all night, and the drinks were coming. I’ve seen him actually
reach for a drink and fall off. And I was there trying
to help him get back up on the stool. (Laughs.) But he was very
good.
And this was around the fifties?
Yeah.
So you come to your music talent
naturally?
Yeah, from
him. We have the
same personality.
He was a very funny man, and I’m funny sometimes.
I think you are. I get a kick out of
you. (Laughs).
And I met my
wife because she was in the band [at Atkins
High School
].
She lived on 17th St. , and
her brother was in the band, so we used to play across the
path through there, a little wooded area. And, I’d play my horn
and he’d answer me back.
So, one day I went over there, and I saw Alfreda. And I was like,
“Wow!” She struck
me right then, but it was almost two years later before we
ever connected. I
would just watch her walk home every day, 'cause we came the same way. She didn’t pay me a
bit of attention at all.
(Laughs.) But she played
clarinet very well.
And she was a part of a group called the “Teen Queens”,
and they were in the paper and everything for the big variety
shows. They were
a very good group.
So music is part of the Robinson
household. What about your children, you encouraged them
musically?
I insisted
everybody play, not necessarily to be a musician, but just to
enjoy some of the things that music brings to somebody’s
life. It would be
nice if they chose it as a profession, but that ain’t
necessary. You
just want them to go through it. It builds good
character, self-esteem, the whole nine yards. And so everybody
played. And I had
one very good
student, and that was my oldest son, Joe Jr.
You taught your children?
Yeah. I let
them kind of do their own thing, because I didn’t want to be
one of those fathers. I got them started, and
they got in the band, and I sort of left them to do what they
wanted to do. So,
Joe started on trumpet and wound up playing drums. Actually, he played
with Bill Bright and myself, so he was developing very good.
But that wasn’t
his main interest, because kids today have so many interests.
Back when I was
coming up, there wasn’t that many things to do, to distract
you.
Would you like to add anything to this
interview?
I guess if I
had to add anything, it would be to thank the people of
Winston-Salem . They have been the greatest. A lot of people say
you can’t do anything at home, but the people of Winston-Salem
have disproved this. I have some loyal
fans, and they’re just wonderful.
PHOTO CREDITS:
3rd and
4th photos by Marshall Tyler ©2004. For more photos by Mr.
Tyler, including photos of area musicians, see http://www.marshalltyler.com/
.
|
 :
CD
"Better Late
Than Never"
Performing at Old Salem
Next Generations of Robinsons
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